Bernie,

After jumping the broom into the 40 year old age bracket this past June, there is much for me to agree with...and take some measure of issue with, as well.

Without making this a hijacking of your blog (LOL), let me say that I believe that one of the things I take issue with is that idea that one is "Aging Out" (losing one's social value and incerasing lack of interest in things due to chronological advancement). On face value, this is true based on all we see around us and how society works in general. But as much as one "ages out," we are also "Aging In."

This is verified by your own posting: it's not JUST that you are becoming bored/uninterested in the desiderata of what passes for Black gay lifestyles, but your interests are broader and broadening. While younger gay-idnetified Black men (you notice I didn't say "young") people tend to be caught up in those lifestyles and identities, for many of us who are older (you notice I didn't say "old") there comes a tipping point, a been there, done that quality to many of their enterprises. The prides, the clubs, the community meetings, the demonstrations, the road trips, the policy positions are start to run together. And there is a natural desire for "more." And unless we decide to remain stuck in some sort of gay Peter Pan syndrome, we seek out and engage "more." Aging In. (This is not the same as having diverse interests in the first place, but rather a resultof our past experiences being filtered through our present circumstances...and sometines vice versa).

Of course, this is coupled with the idea amogn many of us that we really are getting "old." The days ahead of us are shorter than the days behind us. We sense our mortality ever so much more than we did. And because we are socialized along sexual lines, we also feel our chances at not just love and relationships slipping away, even dating and sex start seeming more remote...esp[cially if we are still attracted to the same kind of young, nubile, choco-muffins we liked when we ourselves were 15, 10, 5 years younger.

I constantly joke that in Atlanta, dudes here like ot put the 35 and older crowd into the 2-for-1 bin at the supermarket. Or that my expiration date has been stamped and my "Sell by" date is getting shorter. LOL...which, to some degree is true. But that's about their expectations, not mine. In reality, I've become more sanguine about aging (loving it, actually), less in a hurry to "be in a relationship" (and there are some prospects, btu I get to them when I get to them...LOL), less caught up in going out or having to be at every Pride or seeing every show.

For me, this is all pretty exciting and way scary. But it's my journey, not the gay, Black, sex, young, male community's or any other combination thereof. As for the rest, I'll get to it or them when I'm ready. In my own good time.

Interesting.

I am at 55.5 years. I was in a SGL relationship for 27+ of those years. Those are the credentials for this discussion.

I understand precisely the sentiment that you raise. I however don't believe it is unique to black gay men. I think what you are describing is the phenomena of our youth focused society.

After awhile, you tire of it all and just want to check out and hang with others who appreciate the years and life's experience that you bring.

Personally, I do not feel "aged out." I feel renewed and a bit anxious - concerned that I have wasted too many years, to make a difference in my life and the lives of others. I want to find more of my passion and live an authentic life.

Yes. Our community, like others, focuses on youth and does not appreciate our experiences. So what? We press on; we create our own worlds and for each of us that is different.

At this point, everyone has to follow a path that is true for them. I do believe we should create community for those who have lived long and those who love and want to be in community with them.

Thanks for raising this. I look forward to others' comments.

Thanks for raising this. It's something that you and I have discussed personally and is a topic that is of great concern. Cruising into my 30s, I'm feeling "been there, done that." The zeal to run down to ATL, DC or MIA every few months has gone. But it's not because I don't feel attractive ... my own life has changed and those activities, while never supremely satisfying, now appear even less so.

But here's an admission, there is a gnawing part of me that wants to remain super-competitive. it has to be that fear of isolation, aging, loneliness and yes, appearing or feeling unattractive. I don't mind the pictures/images of shirtless hunks; I've posed for a few, my immediate crew and myself are mostly gym boys. BUT ... now I'm feeling the pressure to keep all that up, to maintain or achieve a certain look and fight aging. The Peter Pan syndrome that's prevalent across gay culture is whispering in my ear. Why am I so afarid of being/looking 50 and oveweight and alone? It's probably an emotionally healthier alternative to being a 50 year old circuit boy with the body and mind of a 25 year old.

Bernie, you have touched on "aging out" in the BG community periodically. I don't think anyone would disagree that there is a "genuine disconnect between younger and older members of our community". Society at large is guilty of ageism. So why should we expect gay subculture be any different? The difference is, we are a distinct minority and, when we want to associate with one another, the obvious choices are limited.

So what now?

There's no reason why "older" black, gay men have to wait for the younger set to organize, promote and manage every social event in our community. I would think a city like New York would have more organized options to address this disparity. There are at least two social groups in Atlanta that solicit the older black, gay crowd (Affair With Flair and Together In Love come immediately to mind); and there are a few informal groups of associates who get together on a regular basis, as well.

Just last night, I attended a birthday party for a black, gay man turning 40. His lover is 50 and they've been together for nearly 12 years. These sort of things are not highlighted in our community but happen all the time. The average age at the party (mostly black gay men with a healthy dose of straight men and women) was 35+. We all had a ball and actually didn't disband until 4:00 in the morning - something that would surprise most of the young kids.

At nearly 40, I still have a lot of energy and resent the implication that my age precludes me form being active in the BG social scene. Luckily, I've always had other interests - interests that fall outside of the typical black, gay social construct. I honestly don't know how I balanced it all when I was younger. These days, interests such as art openings, eating at a nice restaurant, and attending independent arts events have moved to the forefront for me. This has just been a natural progression. Partly because of changing values as I get older and partly because the old staples don't speak to me. I'll drop by a club if I'm in the mood or attend a Pride on occasion. But I know what to expect from those environments so those are not my chief social interactions. Even as an initial organizer of the popular San Juan Brothas event, I'd have to say, I saw the limitations of that type of event pretty early and pulled back.

So, how about this: Try getting together a couple of friends once a month or so for cards, dinner, a movie, etc. And then, build out from there. Arrange for a "night" at a small bar or cafe to connect. If you get enough people together on an on-going basis, you can get discounts at plays, arrange for vacations. Really the options are only limited by us.

Bernie. It is interesting that you created this blog entry just as I was considering starting a forum thread on this very topic on Keith Boykin's bulletin board. Thank you very much for doing it. As a 52 yo (about to be 53 on Aug. 17th for those who want to email a greeting) I am still very new to the blogs, the Prides, and several other activities that I am only now discovering. Have I been living on another planet? Possibly so, or perhaps somewhere in the South where word of an organized gay black community is only just now being heard (remember Juneteenth and Texas). But having said that is a preface for my observations.

I feel as if I am just entering the gay community. Much as an adolescent or young adult just discovering his identity, the blogs, the Prides, the friendships that I have established via the internet over the past few months have really put me at the doorstep. Rather than "aging out," I feel as though I am aging in. I am reaching a stage that says you have more years behind you than in front of you and it is time to do some things for yourself that make me feel fulfilled. I have met and emailed some of the twenty something bloggers and understand that their values and desires are different from mine as a fifty something. And yet, it is that which unites us (or gay preferences) that is greater than the generation gap that divides us. I am more than pleased that some of the younger members of the community stop by my blog site. It is different from the reading they get elsewhere in the sense that there is far less "Saturday night drama" and more reflections and insights of an older gay black male. But I do learn so much from them. I am not recruiting them for potential match ups and have no delusions that I will fit into any of their romantic plans. That is the wisdom of age. But their are issues that confront us as gay black men that must be addressed in a unified voice. The conversations that I have with Rashid Darden are as helpful to me as I hope that mine are to him. My dinner with no4real4real let me see a young man who is as career oriented in the field of education as I was at his age.

I believe we can only have so much on our plate at any one time. Some of us choose Prides, and clubs, and partners earlier than others. I chose family, career, a marriage, assisting aging parents and later raising my sons as a single parent. Believe me that was all that my plate could hold. Now that those things have moved off my plate, I have time for new experiences. Did I miss the boat. I certainly hope not, but what I will get for my efforts will certainly be different than what I would have gotten as a twenty something. Not only that, I have the great advantage of being able to think through the life stages of each decade and be able to relate to the thoughts, feelings, desires, (hormonal urges), and changes of each. Aged out? No, filled with a variety of experiences, some of which I have moved beyond and others that are just beginning. Shem hotep!

Just as there is no monolithic black community I don't think there is a monolithic black gay community or gay community for that matter. I think community is made up of your surroundings and dealings with others. I go to a church that is gay affirming so some of my community comes from there. I also do theatre/improvisation so some of my community comes from there. Some of these overlap some of them don't and I'm cool with that but I do feel I am part of a community one that reflects me as a person and what I bring to the table.

Bottom line, for me, is that I connect with people because of my interest in what they have to say and how I personally identify with them.

I almost didn't realize that the black gay community didn't exist. I'm being sarcastic, but most of what I see is a bunch of guys looking to get their freak on, while most of the "community" remains anonymous. Meanwhile, those who are involved in activism is on the decline. The evidence is recent dismantlement of various black gay organizations due to the lack of funding and support. The largely anonymous nature of the environment wasn't really conducive to genuninely cultivating friendships or a substantive community.

As we all know, there is no monolithic black gay community to speak of. Because I am not slender or buffed I sometimes have felt ignored in the bar or club setting. But that's not "my community" that's just some social outlet. When I am with a group of artists who happen to be black and gay I definitely feel a part of a community. It has a lot to do with the lack of older black gay role models than anything. Many of my black gay friends from the 70's who were activists, artists, etc. died from the AIDS epidemic and since then, the community has never recovered. Subsequently, there are no older gay men to mentor young black gay youth. When I was coming of age in my 20's I had many black gay men mentoring me as I found my way through the eurocentric gay community. From what I can see these days, young black gay men cannot be bothered by older black gay men.

Many of the black youth today have bought into the eurocentric ideology of putting physicality first over the character. One of the major factors of a community is people communicating with each other. I have yet to see any direct communication. Most, if not all, communications are based on put-downs and judgments to the point that communication becomes trite because we don’t want to be judged. We get enough of that from white folks and to get it also from black gay men is an abomination.

So I ask what exactly is a "Black Gay Community" and does one have to have a particular level of blackness in them in order to be excepted into the community. How does one define blackness? Does one have to be a particular age (under 40) to be a part of this so called "Black Gay Community?"

I think Bernie, what you touch upon is the pervasive ageism that exists in society as a whole. Yet, white gay men, as they get older, have organizations, etc. for support, we ain't got nothing, not even each other.

It's important to get into those other activities early BEFORE you start feeling all aged out. Once a week, my friends and I get together and have a night that's dedicated to gay film. Our average age is 25. We still go to the clubs, bars, and parties, but we also realize that you need some sort of balance and support system in this lifestyle.

Interesting discussion. I feel like an invader as a lesbian, but that feeling matched my reaction to the marketing/promotion of the Pride in The city events; namely, the use of images of beautiful young male bodies and was I really welcomed at PIC events. And, I don't think gay men are alone in wondering if their expiration date is fast approaching, and if an expiration date is fair or warranted. Lesbians often maintain a "screw it all" attitude, but most of us, if asked, will admit to some fear of being alone after a certain age.

Great discussion. Glad I stopped by.

Age is nothing but a number. Besides, who in their right mind wants to forever be 12 and 15 years old?
Give me NOW.

I'm feeling this post. At age 26, I don't identify with much of what is traditionally associated with "young" gay black men. I have an aversion to clubs and other things associated with "being seen." So much of that scene is superficial to me and....I dunno, maybe we need to discuss this offline, lol.

Is it about the age or is it about self maturity. In my case when I made my first steps into the life I felt a need to get involved in everything out of curiousity and trying to find out where I fit in. As I matured I realised that some aspects of the Black gay world were not for me. As I became more comfortable with my gayness I also realised that I wanted more than just 'gay life' so I have participated less and less in Pride type events.

As an out gay man I pick and chose my events based on what I like as a person whether it be 'gay' or not!

Thanks for the post Bernie... interesting subject. As a 32 yr old gay man, it often feels that I'm caught between both worlds you describe. There are moments where I feel consumed by the quest to hold on to my fleeting youth and then there are moments where I long for happy married people trappings...the house, the kids, yada yada. Truthfully, I'd rather have the latter. The youthful short-lived vanity is overrated.

What I have always longed for is a common ground with my Black same-sex-loving brethren and sistren, particularly because how we love and who we love (and how and who we f*ck) shape our collective experience. I used to think this concept was synonymous with the word 'community' (and part of me still wonders whether or not the difference between the two is negligible) but I'm not as dependent on realizing that 'community' as I once was.

Like you, Bernie, I have never seen myself as the 'typical Black gay man' (or anything typical, now that I think of it) but I've always wondered "Well then, who is 'typical'? These typical men who outnumber 'atypical' little ole me: do these 'typical Black gay men' have what they need?" As if I had what I needed (not just to survive, but to thrive) and as if my 'atypicalness' allowed (or obligated) me to offer more than what I viewed as typical. You see, my being 'atypical' - the jolie-laid nerdy, house-music DJ, programmer/artist androgyne pomo afro homo - sequestered me as 'other' even as I attempted to continue to build on the foundation that I thought was Our Bottom Line, regardless of whether I could actually relate personally to my contributions. In other words, sacrifice for what seemed like the greater good without really having a connection to the end result. That might seem like a different paradigm than aging out (and it might be), but I think the common feeling of being on the outside and looking in on something you're supposed to have this strong, maybe even irrevocable connection to - that's there.

But time, I tell you, it has a way of changing perceptions. It (or me, or whoever) brings people into your life who seem to resemble you, but who end up being nothing like you. That right there is enough of a vicious cycle. And time keeps on ticking; as it ticks, some things prove themselves to be sustainable (images of what we desire - or what we are supposed to desire: please, it's not just our sex - or pathology - that sells) or not (things that actually sustain life: a decent place to live? a job that provides opportunity for progression? potential life/sex partners? health insurance?). Well, whatever it takes to bring my focus back to the middle - back to me - makes it all good.

Because my bottom line is becoming, "As I get older, do I have what I need to enjoy my life?" Because I'd rather be throwing that body-bombarded palmcard out with the trash in front of my comfortable home instead of dropping it as I'm being evicted from my apartment. Selling sex (really youth) will remain constant. People will always use sex to sell whatever to appeal to the masses, but meanwhile, do I have what I need? Am I merely surviving trying to keep up with someone else's perception of who I should be or am I thriving in my own life? I don't think I believe in celebrating life (that's almost as oxymoronic as the terms "the meaning of life" and "coming out") but ultimately, I do believe in doing my best with whatever I have. Sure, that 'best' is founded upon what I was given by those who came before me, but that structure is a foundation - not a fence. I can do anything and go wherever my blood beats, because I am my own. I want to believe that more than anything else - and not be dependent on anything else. So, while my body and thoughts will change over time, I remain the person who is defining me and my success. And maybe being more fulfilled will help me to be more accepting of the choices that others decide to make in their lives, whatever they may be.

Somebody some where once wrote:
Everything in life is pre-determined, decided by a power, by something that is greater than us and perhaps even within us...unconsciously we have already taken all the decisions that need to be taken...

But I guess, our learning and experiences influence this unconscious power and thus our future decisions? But what would Bernie and others say or think about this. Wasn't where they are today, the very place they were meant to be? One wonders...

"Aged out" of what? I do miss some of the social activity that seemed more available when I was younger. Like most folks getting older certainly doesn't sap you of your sexual drive, etc. Being older for me has been a challenge and today is my 49th birthday. For straight folks that's young, I "look" young etc. I refrain from going to clubs and the like but because of the epidemic one can still easily be the oldest person in the place. I participate in a lot of political work with gay and straight folks. When I'm in a predominately gay space most if not all of the males are young. In predominately straight spaces there are more people who are my age and older.
I would like to be partnered but I often do a mental excercise to prepare myself for a solitary future without the romantic/erotic kind of relationship that I often have fantasies about :).
Lots of African-American youth gay or straight, expect to live to a happy, ripe old age. They may not have the opportunity the way things are going so I throw a lot of energy into doing what I can to make this world better. The war and the attacks on social security and all occupy my mind a lot.

Heaven please send to all mankind,
Understanding and peace of mind.
But, if it's not asking too much
Please send me someone to love.

Show all the world how to get along,
Peace will enter when hate is gone.
But, if it's not asking too much,
Please send me someone to love

Thus is the mission statement for the years to come in my life. I'm not aging out of anything. I'm just growing into me.

I deliberately did not read everyone else's comments before making mine because I did not want to lose my focus. However, I very much agree with what you wrote in your original post. I am thankful for this post because I occasionally struggle with "fitting in" an everchanging world. I knew my life would be different when I was going to see Ella Fitzgerald at age 18. My peers were not interested in that then and in some cases, they still are not. I once said that I would stop going out to the clubs when I turned 35 but at 42, I still love to dance so I still go out. The crowd has changed but there are still a group of us who are similar in age who dance faithfully. The music never stops playing so why should we. By the way, I know more of the names of the songs now than I did years ago.

I think the key to aging is letting go of the fear to just be you. Being means that will probably enjoy events or things that no one else enjoys. I have learned to not let that stop me from going. When I go to a jazz club, depending on whom I am seeing, I am sometimes the youngest or one of the few African-Americans there.

I attended a Black circuit event a few years ago and I was sitting on the beach. I watched a brotha walked back and forth passing out flyers to everyone but me. My guess was the event was one either for folks younger or smaller than myself. It was an eye opening experience for me. If you want the kind of event that you would love to attend, host it yourself.

Interesting topic here Bernie.. I recall you have brought it up before. I see it as interests may change over time... some still do the things they did when in their 20s while others change. I went from going out for fun.. to going out for laughs (some events are just a sideshow)... to looking around and saying WTF??? I know my personal life changes have dictated some of my interest changes... and vice versa.

The "aged out" thing is a state of mind. I attended the DC black pride as you may know and read, but what i found refreshing were the many intellectual conversations i had. I got to read three beautiful lesbians poetry from my book. I got to discussed being older and gay with a group of men in the lobbying. I went to a film festival. I attended a poetry slam. I believe the "aging out" is deciding you don't have a voice anymore. But really, it's the best kind of black gay pride. I'm learning, let the young kids have thier parites and fun, our duty as older black gay men and women is to represent "the change." THAT THERE IS LIFE AFTER 30 YEARS OLD. Honestly, after this past weekend, i don't feel so alone anymore. I don't feel useless. I don't feel "aged out." The exact opposite.